We're back, Jack! We're back! It’s the 2nd of January, and it’s probably my second favorite day of January so far. Definitely, definitely.
And I’m glad to be here with you. We don’t get to do this all the time, but I’m happy to be here.
I’ve got something for you. Ready?
Sit comfortably, because I’m going to hit you with something from our friend Epictetus:
"What is the fruit of these teachings? Only the most beautiful and proper harvest of the truly educated: tranquility, fearlessness, and freedom. We should not trust the masses who say only the free can be educated, but rather the lovers of wisdom who say that only the educated are free."
Wow! You should do movie trailers for a living.
Yeah, it’s cool! You know what? I’m going to throw this out there: I think so many people believe that education stops when you leave school or university—like, that's it. They think, “I’ve done all my learning, I’m good now. I’ll just listen to podcasts about dream mills and death row,” you know, that kind of stuff.
But actually, learning never stops! I think so many people forget that.
Let’s be honest here: When you were 18 and just out of university, did you dream of working in sales?
No, definitely not!
I’m sorry to admit it, as the "Godfather of Modern Sales," but you ended up there, right?
I did.
Exactly. Most salespeople listening to this didn’t plan on getting into sales, but they ended up there. I think we forget that sales is a skill. Everybody works in sales—teachers, lawyers, doctors, therapists, parents—everyone! It’s a skill set that you can learn, and it’s amazing.
So, when you think of education being freedom, what does that mean to you?
It’s funny, isn’t it? Because when I think of education and self-improvement, there’s that saying: "There’s no self-improvement without self-awareness." That’s something I always think of when I look back at moments where I’ve improved my sales. The "ugly mirror" pops up, and I realize: “Oh, I’m actually a bit crap at this.” That one question always stumps me. Or that objection—I never know how to handle it. Every time I ask that question, the person doesn’t really get what I mean.
What you can do then is look at your entire sales skill set, almost like top trumps cards. Which ones are the strongest? Which are the weakest? Everything can be leveled up. If you fall in love with the process of gradually getting better at each part of sales, then it doesn’t become just a job where you’re like, “Alright, I fell into this after university, and let’s see what happens in four years.” It becomes something totally different: How do I get better at communication? How do I ask a question that actually hits home? How do I ask the uncomfortable questions? How do I handle any objection with confidence?
Does that make sense?
So much sense! And that was beautifully laid out—like a banana split! If I may, can I add a cherry on top?
Please, do!
You talked about self-improvement without self-awareness, but I’d add one more thing: self-compassion. I think so many people are out there trying to improve themselves, but they forget to show compassion to themselves. Yeah, you have a weak spot, but don’t beat yourself up about it. Acknowledge it, and then ask, “How do I get better?” That’s really important when you’re working toward mastery.
I’ve definitely been guilty of this in the past, trying to shove as many books down my throat as possible—sales books, and so on. But actually, rereading the same book every year—some of our favorite sales books—always yields something new. There’s always something you missed. You can say, “Alright, this year, I’m going to focus on this one skill.” Maybe for a week, you focus on mirroring or labeling or asking difficult questions.
So, let’s say it’s the start of the year, and someone got an Amazon gift voucher from their uncle. They’re ready to buy books to get better at sales. What would you recommend?
I’d say Gap Selling by Keenan—love that one. You Can’t Teach a Kid to Ride a Bike at a Seminar by David Sandler is another great one. And then Never Split the Difference by Chris Voss. Those three are good starting points.
But here’s what I’d say: A guy like Chris Voss has this illustrious career—FBI hostage negotiator, right? You can read his book, and it’s really actionable and short. But if you dive into interviews with him, or find a YouTube video, you’ll start to pick up deeper knowledge. So, I always find that with any sales methodology or book. You read it a few times, then you watch interviews, and suddenly, it’s embedded in your learning.
And I think that’s crucial, right? When we decided to get better at sales, it was all about self-work. You can pay people, and there’s the sunk cost fallacy and accountability, but honestly—do the groundwork yourself. Get yourself to 90%, and then maybe bring in someone to help you with that last 10%. But so much can be done on your own.
Beautiful! Beautiful!
I’ve been Jack Frimston.
And I’ve been Zach Thompson.
Remember you will die.
